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From Rock detector:
RAY GILLEN OPENS UP JUST BEFORE HIS LAST EVER GIG FRONTING BLACK SABBATH. 1986 INTERVIEW EXCLUSIVE TO ROCKDETECTOR.
INTERVIEW: GARRY SHARPE-YOUNG
PHOTOS: DAVE SPITZ
The late Ray Gillen truly was a star taken before his time. Plucked from obscurity to front a then ailing BLACK SABBATH Ray had the looks, presence and, most importantly, the voice. He never made it onto any (official) Sabbs product but did famously front the band for one of the band's toughest periods. Interviews are rare, but after catching the band no less than five time on their 1986 UK tour I managed to get some time with Ray just as things were wrapping up.
Ray Gillen succumbed to the lure of the tape recorder on the very last show of the UK tour at the Nottingham Royal Concert Hall. The gig was far from sold out but still reeled in a respectable audience as Nottingham was, and always probably will be, a ‘Rock’ town. Interestingly the Leicester De Montfort hall gig a matter of weeks before which had suffered an appalling attendance was a mere half hour’s drive away suggesting that if the promoters had got their planning right and just put in the one gig it could well have been packed. In the bowels of the theatre, Ray emptied the room and proceeded to graze his way through a salad bowl as he answered my questions.
Now, let me get this straight because you are here, an unknown as yet, fronting BLACK SABBATH and many British fans are wondering who the Hell you are. It’s an uncanny coincidence you very nearly sharing the same surname as another famous Sabbath singer- Ian Gillan.
“As coincidences go it’s pretty wild isn’t it? My name is spelt, like you say, just one letter different. Vocally we’re nothing alike. I mean, I love Ian Gillan’s voice, I grew up on it and I’ll admit that I have sang along to most of the Purple records at some point. Ian’s great but we are very different in style. GLENN HUGHES was great too. Incredible singer, more my kind of thing. I just love that bluesy Rock style. Coverdale is cool too, Robert Plant, Paul Rodgers, that kind of thing- the old masters! I listen to a lot of FREE, BAD COMPANY, LED ZEPPELIN. Ha Ha. I’m definitely old school Rock. If it’s cool or not I don’t care. It’s what I like.”
What were you doing before BLACK SABBATH?
“I was with Bobby Rondinelli from RAINBOW. We had a band, just called RONDINELLI. Good band. Bobby and his brother Teddy. We were getting near a deal, a lot of interest, but BLACK SABBATH came along and so, … sorry Bobby!”
I’ve seen quite a few shows on this tour now. How do you think it is has progressed?
“I don’t know about Great Britain because this is first time around for me. Tony tells me we are doing fine. OK, it’s tough because I think the media here are giving us a hard time because the band seems to be changing all the time. People have told me that it’s kind of a British thing too, to pull bands down. The fans like us, the press doesn’t. That’s OK because we are winning over the people that matter. People are telling me after the shows that they have been impressed. I’m sure they are being genuine too. This is a great, great band to sing for. Tony, Dave, Eric, Geoff are real talented people.”
Let’s not beat about the bush. There aren’t many people coming to see you. It’s a long time since I saw Hammersmith Odeon so empty.
“Really? Maybe you’re right but I think those that came will go away and tell their friends and it will be different next time. Someone told me more girls were coming to the shows which is cool. It has been building, people coming to repeat shows in other cities they tell us. It’s tough, the fans know Tony but not the rest of us. It will just take time I guess.
Maybe the other thing is that Sabbath need to make a point to a new generation of Rockers. There are people out there who think that by slapping on some make up and teasing their high six foot high that somehow constitutes Rock n’ Roll but I don’t think so. I don’t have anything against those kind of bands, we are all here to entertain, but maybe the focus is too much in that direction right now. For me it’s about the playing, the musicianship, the heart n’ soul. Certainly is with this band anyhow. I think people are going to want that back.”
I have to say this, and not just because you are sitting here, but I think you are right. I have been very, very impressed.
“There you go!”
I noticed the cameras at Hammersmith. Were they for a video?
“Yeah, that’s right. Should be interesting.”
Who’s idea was it for the stage set?
“I have no idea.”
What is it exactly? Looks a bit like a Victorian Satanic mill.
“I will have to take your word for that. Looks kind of industrial to me. Like a big Heavy Metal factory or something. It’s cool but kind of obscure.”
It’s nice to see Geoff Nicholls on the stage for a change. Why the change?
“I don’t know much about that. I know Geoff is happy though because he worked hard on the album. A lot of the ‘Seventh Star’ songs he wrote. I don’t know how the band worked before I got involved but Geoff seems to be very much a part of the team. Maybe he didn’t like being out front before? I don’t know, I think it’s good for him though.”
In a strange kind of way, the fact that the venues have not been full has made a lot of people I’ve spoke to feel almost privileged to see you in action. I mean, your voice is just huge and it looks like you’ve been singing with the band for years.
“Thanks. It’s nice to hear that. Onstage I just focus on the task. I hope those people tell their friends to come next time.”
The American shows you just did must have been a very strange experience.
“Yes, strange in a totally positive way. It was the thrill of a lifetime every night. The audiences were great, very hot for the band. Everything happened so fast. There was a bit of confusion naturally. I got called ‘Glenn’ more than once! It was a rush for me personally, one I don’t think I’ll be able to repeat too quickly.”
Just when and how did you come to join the band?
“Dave Spitz knew about me. Tony just phoned me up one day out of the blue and I was like ‘This is a joke, right?’ But it wasn’t. It took a while for me to realise this thing was for real. It’s not everyday you are asked to join BLACK SABBATH.
We met, we talked and then, it was all quite strange because Glenn was still around. It was scary but when we got the chance I sang for Tony and he just gave me this big smile so I kind of knew then. Glenn was very suspicious and it wasn’t the best way of doing things but Tony really had no other choice.”
How do you feel singing the old Sabbath material? Anything you would rather not sing?
“I like all of it, truthfully. It is almost like an honour for me to sing the songs that Glenn sang on the album. I’m hoping I do him justice there. The Ozzy stuff? Well, we are BLACK SABBATH so we can’t get away with not playing it. It isn’t easy, I’ll admit to that. Ozzy sang on such a kind of one level approach which suits those songs perfectly. It’s not my style and it’s a challenge. You know, I didn’t actually know too much of the old BLACK SABBATH stuff, a lot of it was new to me.”
Really? You didn’t know ‘Paranoid’? C’mon.
“I knew of it, I had heard it plenty but it had never sank in because it just wasn’t my thing. Sure, you hear BLACK SABBATH on college radio, in the car, at parties, but I never sat down to listen to a whole album. Dio, that’s different. I love Dio with RAINBOW and BLACK SABBATH. The Dio songs I knew word for word even before this whole thing came along. Now I’m learning to love Ozzy in a strange kind of way by performing these songs night after night.”
What do you make of the comparisons people are making between you and Ozzy?
“I don’t understand it. We are so different. I don’t try to look like him, (Ray grabs his belly here!) I don’t copy his stage moves and there is no way I can even begin to sound like Ozzy nor would I want to. In fact, if ever I begin to sound like Ozzy point me in the direction of a doctor! People should get over it, BLACK SABBATH moved on a long, long time ago. It’s Tony’s thing now, not Ozzy’s.
I’ve heard comments from Ozzy and Ronnie about this band and all I can say is, hey, it’s Tony’s band to do with what he likes. I think that's very unfair. You guys bailed out and, OK, I have some very big boots to fill. I admit to that. Ronnie, he’s like a hero. Ozzy, he can say what he likes. I just don’t care.
The thing is this, Sabbath is a legend and it is easy to take a shot at, especially in times of change. I think all that will change for the better once we get a new record out.”
How do you rate ZENO?
“Well, they’re Germans…Ha Ha Ha! Except Rod who just has a German name.”
It’s kind of different don’t you think? They’re not really suited for a BLACK SABBATH audience.
“It’s not your regular Rock that’s for sure. The guy has a great voice and Joe is great on guitar. Joe’s cool, the keyboard guy is kinda strange though. I like the album, not what you expect. I think it’s kind of QUEEN like. They’re trying something a little different from everything else that is out there. It could be huge. You just can’t tell. At least it’s different so it gets my vote. They are getting a lot of money from somewhere so good luck to them.”
How does it ‘feel’ to sing for BLACK SABBATH?
“Wonderful. Really. I want to make my mark here and I think this is the band to do it. Tony is such a wonderful, wonderful player. Just listen to the Blues solo he plays in the set. He doesn’t get enough credit for how sensational a guitarist he really is.
I don’t know how I come across to the fans yet. I’m learning on my feet still but I’m getting there and the guys are really helping me out with good advice. These audiences, they seem to stare at you like this… (pulls very critical, screwed up face)… as if they are thinking ‘OK big shot, show me how good you really are’. That for me is new. I’m used to playing for people who go out for a good time not to judge you.
There is a certain amount of pacing myself I have to remember during the set too. The whole thing is a craft, but it’s coming together.”
What do you mean by pacing yourself? Like maintaining your energy?
“No, I mean more emotionally. Each song tells a story and you have to get into the whole vibe of the song to deliver it with conviction. That is what makes Ronnie so good, he can give himself to a song totally. Tony and Geoff have been guiding me and given me good advice there. It’s OK to ‘sing’ a song but to make it really work, so the audience believes it, you have to pull from something deep down, really get into it. I have to do that but at the same time I need to project my persona too.
The way I am approaching each show is that I really have something to prove and each song is a way of reminding the audience that BLACK SABBATH has a new singer. I put my heart and soul into it and make an effort to deliver the goods every time. I would never say forget those guys because that would be both disrespectful and plain stupid. Ronnie, Glenn, Ian- they are legends.”
Who is your favourite amongst those names?
“Can’t choose. Ian has all those great, great DEEP PURPLE songs. Just stack them up. It’s a hell of an achievement. The guy has just sang on so many amazing songs. There’s some cool stuff on ‘Born Again’, that album had a nice groove to it. Some of his vocals on that record are incredible.
Glenn too with Purple but I love his soulful style, he has a lot of R&B in him. Really gives himself to a song. Amazing singer with a great gift. Glenn makes everything look just so easy.
And Ronnie? He’s a vocal God for sure. A very small vocal God but still a God! In RAINBOW he was awesome. You kinda look at him and wonder where this huge voice is coming from and that’s very cool. Love Ronnie’s voice, love his songs. Singing these songs is an experience I tell you. Huge respect to Ronnie.”
It must be tough to replace these people.
“This is an uphill battle for us now, we are realistic. It just makes me fight harder, I want to sing better to make sure people leave believing that Sabbath is back on the rails again. And it is, it really is. I feel some confidence coming back, I really do.
Tony tells people he is proud of this band and I believe it. I’m proud to be here. I view this like a God given opportunity because I was kind of plucked right out of the blue for this band. I love singing all these classic songs but right now I’m just itching to sing in the studio. I want to have my name on a BLACK SABBATH record. I want to have my friends walk into a record store, pick up a BLACK SABBATH album and see my picture on there. That’s where my focus is now.”
What were you told about the reasons you were being pulled into the band so quickly? There are a lot of rumours about Glenn. Can you clarify the situation?
“Glenn was having lots of problems. That is all I was told. Health problems. He’ll be back on the scene soon I’m sure.”
Has the band done any writing for a new album?
“No, just ideas, just talk. Tony is starting to think about a new record.”
Any idea of musical direction?
“No, too early. I know Tony wants to make it very heavy. That’s good with me.”
Will it be called BLACK SABBATH?
“No, it will be called ‘Ray Gillen featuring Black Sabbath’! Yes, it will be BLACK SABBATH. That last album, well, it should have been Tony’s solo thing but the record company just thought it would sell better as Sabbath. Tony has told me it was a complete mess for him. It was confusing and it didn’t work. ‘Seventh Star’ was very Blues focussed, some ballads, perfect for Glenn, so I think Tony wants to get a lot heavier again for the next record.
BLACK SABBATH fans, I think, want Tony to play in a particular way and as good as ‘Seventh Star’ is it does not really represent that because it was Tony trying something different. I love ‘Seventh Star’. There is some great music on there. If it had been released as the ‘Tony Iommi Band’ or something I think the critics would have been kinder.”
How stable is the band now? Are you in for the long run?
“I hope so. Tony says yes so…who can say? I’ll give it my best shot.
That sounds a little cryptic?
So far, so good. If you are asking me if I want to sing for BLACK SABBATH then the answer is yes, I’m not some temporary fill in. The guys make me feel at home and the line up feels stable. It’s a great band, Tony’s great, The Beast, Eric, Geoff. No weak links. This is a wonderful band to be in. We all get along but it’s Tony’s baby at the end of the day and he makes all the decisions.”
You mentioned ‘The Beast’ there. Why is Dave Spitz called that?
The guy is a complete animal on the bass. Plus he has all this hair – everywhere! He’s got more hair on him than a wolf! I don’t think you could call him anything else except ‘The Beast’.
I guess this is pretty much Tony’s band now so how democratic is it?
“It’s Tony’s call every time. BLACK SABBATH is his band, he’s the only one who never gave in which makes him, in my eyes, tougher than the rest of them. I’m learning a hell of a lot about BLACK SABBATH now. Things that the fans never get to hear about because Ozzy is always pushing his side of the story. I tell you, Tony is the man. He is BLACK SABBATH. Of course we discuss things, and he listens but he’s the guy who has to carry the burden. He’s very wise y’know. He’s seen a lot, done a lot more so I’m personally happy to listen to the voice of experience. I love listening to his stories about the old days.”
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One day the the sun will die and the night will crawl :) |
| 3786 | Дата рег-ции 17 Мая, 2004 | Отправлено: 20:16 - 3 Дек., 2004 | 421 |
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